There are 3 issues I want to deal with:
1. One, why did I
write this book?
2. Second one is
the message of this book?
3. Third what is
left out? Or what are the issues I think needs to be explored or the critical
expect of the movement as well.
I wrote this book because my original dissertation very much
covered Islamic movements in Turkey. Even though I did my field work in the
Fergana Valley and Turkey but I left the Fergana Valley aside and very much
focused on Turkey. The Gulen movement was one of my case studies in mid 1990s
and I tried to examine and follow the evolution of the movement and I’m not a
member of movement. I want to mention that as well. I approach the issue from a
scholarly prospective. I did a number of field works in the Balkans, Central
Asia and Europe on the movement. What made me to write this book, one this
misunderstanding of the movement both in Turkey and outside. Second, somewhat
inability of members of the movement to explain what they are doing because the
movement is very much action oriented movement, and there are I would say just
recently there are some institutes to conceptualize what the movement trying to
do. So there are member of conferences of movement put together, some scholars,
some member of movements but I was not satisfied with those works as well. And
I decided to write the movement one to examine impact of neoliberal economic
policies unleashed by Ozal and then also deepening up Turkish democracy. How
democracy and market economy shapes Islamic movement, religion in general Islam
in particular. In other word what we have in Turkey that in Europe usually
protestant reformation played an important role in the evolution of capitalism;
whereas in Turkey the capitalism and democracy help to create more or less
Calvinist, protestant Islam. I think the Gulen movement is one of those
interpretations of Islam. I would say the most powerful one and most successful
one. Tries to reconcile with democracy moderation in general democracy, human
rights and market economy. So what we have here a new Islam and I defined this
new Islam. I think there are poor major characteristic or new imagine
constructor or new understanding of Islam or we can call it a new Islam. One of
the new defining characteristics of new Islam is that religion it is a type of
religiosity more or less rooted in ourselves on soul in ourselves. Believing is
important as long as you behave, that is this connection between believing and
behaving that the religion should motivate you to do something. So the
religion, the piety is not for the sake of but the piety but the piety for the
sake of improving social, political and economic condition of your society. So
here the piety becomes a motivating force not only fulfilling your religious
duties but rather religion is an instrument in a way to improve your social
conditions. The second, by new Islam religion especially Islam in the
conceptual method of Gulen is a civil philosophy. That is something very
important by civil philosophy I mean Gulen wants to integrate Muslims into
public debate and discussion including interpretation of Quran and so they in
understanding of Quran or making some decision on other words for Gulen to
build the consensus something is very important. The consensus building should not
be left to one or two religious scholars, people should participate what the
verse means, what we need to do and this Islam provides that shared code of
language how to debate, how to discuss and it offers general sense of good life
for this building consensus So again building consensus true sharing life of
Islam. I think this is something very important. So it is not the process in
terms of building the consensus but that what we shared is definition of good
life is something very important for the new understanding of Gulen.
Again this is not an Islam of Sheriah, this is an ethical
Islam. Overall in the Turkish case, if you look at the religious movement in
Turkey, no one wants sheriah because of also the sheriah has a very negative
meaning because of a number of historical and political events in the country
but this is a Islam, ethical Islam, a type of Islam you build a bases to create
a consensus.
Finally, I would say the third major characteristic of this
new Islam is been is voluntary. That it is very similar to Abdullah El-Main a
professor at Emirate University and this voluntary that you should make your
own decision to be a Muslim or not to be Muslim. It is your right to follow or
not to follow. In another words that this the voluntary activity that the piety
itself it also becomes to voluntary. It should not to be force, neither by
community nor by the state. This voluntary expects is something very important,
this is why we don’t know the membership of the movement, who is in and who is
out is not clear. People come and people leave. And sometimes people come
together for certain activity. When that activity is finished, people go home.
Because it is very much this voluntary expect is something very important and
this voluntary expect also that religion or piety should be voluntary, it has a
social implication. Some spill over positive effect on the society. Finally,
this new Islam according to my own understanding, it is an attempt to create
enlightenment or there is a conscious effort to bring or filter revelation
through reason. Reason plays an important role, in terms of the critical
thinking in terms of what is right or what is wrong to determine the true
consensus building. I think that is something also very important. The critical
thinking and also this emphasis on open society. But you have to imagine and
think the Gulen movement within large of conservative Turkish society. Where
movement was and where it is today, an incredible change and transformation.
Now I would argue that these are the four major defining of characteristic the
New Islam that the Gulen tries to articulate. In my book I try to separate the
Gulen movement and meaning the book consists of three parts. Because what Gulen
thinks and what Gulen is trying to do is not necessarily manifested in the
movement. Because the movement activities are rooted and located in different
counties and social and political conditions of each country very much shapes
the meaning. The meaning is the outcome. So there is this tension between the
ideas of Gulen and the actions of the activities of the movement. They are not
always the same. I’m not saying they are contradictory but the conditions,
let’s say in Kirgizstan or in Uzbekistan or in the USA are not the same, so the
activities of the movement also varies, there is this variation.
Now, whe n you look at the totality of Gulen’s cognitive map
or his philosophy. I would say also how does
cognitive map of Gulen his carried out by the movement, there are seve n
major centers of, I would say, concept and the activity, the practices based on
some concept. One as I said this Islam as a civil philosophy is something very
important for Gulen. Second, the movement and Gulen very much they stress
bridging more than bonding. Bridging with different cultures and different
societies. Here something quite interesting, it links to this consensus
building, also how do you transform yourself, you transform yourself through
acting with the other. There is this dialectic between self and other in terms
of bridging with different cultures and different societies. This is I think
very important and it also explains helps us to understand interfaith dialog of
the movement. People say what is the purpose of this movement? My own work and
on the bases o f my own study, I would say the key purpose of the movement is
character formation. This is one the, it is more the purpose is not religious I
would say , it is very much secular, it is a character formation. This is one
of the reason why education is something very important for the movement.
Another aspect, the practice of the movement which links to terminology or the
concept of Gulen how to teach Islam? This tension between “temsil” versus
”teblig” rather than preaching you need to teach Islam through good examples,
so the action, activity, practice, building
institutions become much more important than going and preaching the
religion. Another expect of the Islam of Gulen, I see the understanding of Islam by Gulen is feminize d Islam.
I didn’t deal with this issue in the book but I consider it
as feminized Islam. By feminize Islam, I mean the following that when you read
the memoires of Gulen, he argues that his grand mother and mother shaped his
understanding of Islam more than his grandfather and father. His father and his
father, they played an important role in terms of disciplining the body. But he
argues that it is his grand mother and mother who shaped his mind and for
Gulen, Islam is a felt emotion that there is a inner dimension of Islam and he
believes that the sentimental emotional aspect of Islam is essential in terms
of action and activity. So there is this feminize d aspect of Islam that is a
felt emotion. The finally, some another issue which is not a part of the book
and it is a project of another book. That is for Gulen , this character
formation is very important. But one of the defined aspect of the character
Gulen wants to shape, should be someone who concerns the world, who cares
other. There is this ethic of caring, ethical discourse to care the world
because of that the world and humanity very much created by God. There is the
sense you care and you should care if you are a Muslim, what is happening.
Your environment, the world and humanity
because of your love your God. So these are the, I would say key issues of the
book. I also criticize the movement in my book as well. I have four major areas
that I think the movement needs to focus on. One is the gender issue, I tried
to argue that the movement is not where it suppose to be, recruitment of women
and the gender is one of the issue. Certainly, the Turkish culture certainly
how Islam is understood in Turkey plays an important role. There are some
changes in terms of the movement emphasizes women’s educations more than other
groups but still it is one of the area, the gender, is a key issue.
Second, the movement very much focuses on the human being
and community, less on the state. So this is when you are looking at the
movement in Kirghizstan or in Germany or in Turkey. You know, because their
concern is character formation, their main concern is the empowerment of the
community. So you see the similarities but the strategies change. The goal is
the same, but the practice and strategies would vary form state to state on the
bases of the legal social and political context of that country. So this is one
of the, even if Turkey the different regions of the country, so I tried to make
sure in my book that we should not make too many generalization about the
strategies of the movement but there is certainly a shared core what movement
wants to do.
- Foreign cover for policy and international relations. Let
me kindly ask you touch a little bit on the foreign policy, international
relations outlook of the movement. For example, has Hizmet movement been an
important factor in recent Turkish outreach in the world. And how does such a
transnational home grown civic movement effect Turkish foreign policy in term
of means and outlook? And what do you think are the general principles of the
movement when it comes to international relations. Say for example, would you
say the movement is confrontational or non-confrontational, pragmatic, realist?
How would you comment on that?
- Well, I think the movement is one of the, there is a
debate about the role of the movement in Turkey. Especially the state
bureaucracy is not very comfortable with the movement because they don’t want
civil society participation. So the movement participates, or tries to get
engaged on a number of issues and there is also this engagement not only the
inside of the country but the in foreign policy as well. That the movement very
much focuses on civil diplomacy that not the states. This is not a state
centric movement. Here concern is the human being and community. So the
movement foreign policy principles are would say very much the human right
especially the religious freedoms are something very important for the
movement. And the human rights discourses important for the movement. But there
is a debate what the movement is also supporting the human rights of those who
don’t share the vision of the movement is a debate of Turkey, as you know. But
overall, when you look at the outside the human right discourse the individual
rights, the community, the civil society, these are very important for the
movement. In other words, if you look at Turkey’s presents in many countries,
regions of the world, outside of the Turkish Embassy may be in the US, you see
Turkish coalition of America little bit but may be in it is only Washington but
if you go outside of Washington, wherever you go, you have centers of the
movement. Or if you go to Europe in the European cities is the same thing. In
Central Asia the same. I went to Tokyo, Japan, you have the Turkish Embassy and
you have the Tatar mosque in Tokyo and some Muslim communities and then the
movement, nothing else. But you have here that the movement is quite active in
terms of building societal ties, society to society rather than state to state.
Because this is one of the main focus of the movement as well the individual
and the community and its foreign policy principles of the movement, I would
say not confrontational very much it engagement. Movement tries to solve the
problems through peaceful means, this is one of the reason why Gulen was open
the critical of the Israelite-Turkish tension over trying to break the siege of
Gazzah. Because he believes that there should be a compromised diplomacy and
the negotiation, something is very important for the movement. But the
understanding, again the foreign policy principles of the movement I think the
core of the movement is very much this is the human is something very important
for the movement. So the foreign policy or other policies are very much the
extension of understanding what is the purpose of the movement to improve the
social and economic conditions of the society.
- Thank you.
- But again, one more last thing, the movement is the most
pro-European in the country. This is one of the area of tension between AK
Party because they used to be very pro-EU but not any more and whereas the
movement wants to see Turkey to be a part of Europe rather than part of larger
Middle East. So the movement sees the future of Turkey in Europe not outside
Europe. And it is also against the special membership status as well. So this
is one of the areas especially on the foreign of policy area. Also the movement
is not very comfortable with Turkish government’s aggressive attitude toward
Syria. The movement doesn’t want Turkey to get involved or dictate what to do.
They would like to see less intervention in the affairs of the Arab countries.
That doesn’t mean less engagement. Turkey should engage but Turkey should not
see itself as an arrogant country to go and tell other Arab counties what is
right and what is wrong. I think so…. and relation with the Iran, there is also
some differences of opinion.
- They (Hizmet Movement) seem to be more critical on Iran.
- They (Gulen Movement) are more critical about Iranian
government because of again they try to raised in terms of the human right
issue in Iran, and the religious freedoms of the other groups in the country
and they also not comfortable with Iranian politicizing Islam.
- Thank you. Now is time for questions from our audience.
Yes, sir.
- That raises the obvious question as to the Gulen and its
relationship to the U.S. You did talk a little bit about its interesting area.
What is the public opinion as far as how should the US be conducting itself
militarily right now in that area. Is that something that is come up with let’s
say in the publications is to what their interests are as far as U.S. and how
we should we conduct ourselves. Not only with respect to Israel but / as media
coverage, how it is covered?
- I think, about the capitalism, there is no systematic
critic of capitalism unfortunately in the movement. And the movement very much
sees market or capitalism something good. Something good that someway this
competitiveness of the capitalism is part of the, may be not the philosophy of
the Gulen but actions of the movement that you need to be competitive, you need
to engage, you need to do the past and also there is a sense that the movement
feels they should be powerful as well. So movement doesn’t shy away from wealth
of power and but they want that wealth and power to be used for the ultimate
goal or purpose of the what the movement believes in. And most of the
supporters of the movement in Turkey are middle or higher/upper middle class.
So the type of Islam is evolved or the interpretation of Islam very much I
would say caters this developing Turkish economy. Do they are comfortable with
the capitalism and the economic wealth and power. But again, there should be
some ethical boundaries what you can do with the power and wealth.
- Are they comfortable with Americans right now in terms of
travel because we know there are certain places where Americans are not
welcomed right now. So my question is this the case?
- In Turkey? I don’t think there is any problem in Turkey. I
think Americans can.. I don’t see any problem. I think Turkey is still one of
the main destinations for American tourists. The leader of the movement is in
the U.S. one of the accusations movement receives from the some radical Islam’s
groups. They framed the movement as uncle Sam’s Islam or it is on American
Islam and they think that the Gulen movement is not in but the CIA, set of CIA
activities. This is very much you hear these kinds of charges from the
leftists, and the communists. And also some people in Russia for instance,
movement is not active because they treat movement as nothing but American
extension. So the movement is again also criticized inside Turkey as well by
anti-American groups because one of the charge is the leader of the movement is
in the U.S. The type of Islam, movement try to develop is nothing but the
American design type of Islam.