Fethullah Gulen's Interview with Today's Zaman [Part 5]

Gülen says ballot box is not everything in a democracy

Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen, who has inspired the popular civic and social movement called Hizmet, said the ballot box is not everything, urging his followers to not stick to only one but to cast their votes freely based on their personal conviction.

“Of course the ballot box holds a crucial importance for the future of this country; but it is not everything,” he said, adding that focusing on the ballot box only makes some people comfortable in telling lies.

As for the question on which party he would support, Gülen said he has always asked his friends to cast their votes based on their personal conviction. “I believe that asking them to vote for a certain party is a type of pressure; in addition, I also consider engagement with a certain party isolation from other segments of society,” he explained.

Gülen signaled, however, that his supporters would not be voting for the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party), whose chairman, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, constantly throws around insults.

“If a person internalizes and acknowledges such grave accusations and insults, he or she may still vote for that party; but I believe that these remarks which would be hurtful to anybody have also been hurtful to our friends,” Gülen noted.

He cautioned, however, that the candidates are more important than the parties in local elections and as such some of his supporters may see some AK Party candidates deserving their support.
“Whatever party you vote for, you will not have committed a sin,” Gülen remarked.

Commenting on speculations over whether he will return to Turkey, Gülen said he will decide about whether or not to return to Turkey after consulting with friends he trusts. He signaled that the threat for him is not over in Turkey, saying that “those who aspire to seize power despotically upon growing stronger and to never abandon it start to see as a danger those who don't nurture aspirations for power.”

“They try to portray these people as a threat to the state, but they essentially perceive them as a threat to their plans,” he underlined.

Drawing lessons from the past during which important figures suffered and were prosecuted and persecuted, Gülen said troubles are only temporary and asked his supporters to remain patient.
As for the exit strategy from the current turmoil Turkey has been experiencing, the Islamic scholar advised that the country needs a new climate.

“A new constitution is a must to guarantee fundamental rights and freedoms. I believe there should be growing popular demand and pressure on the relevant figures and institutions so that they will make a democratic constitution based on the recognition of universal legal principles,” he explained.
Gülen also warned that “a Turkey which moves away from its own values and people will also move away from the world.”

Here are excerpts from the interview:

Only days are left until the elections. There are debates on what party the movement will support.
I cannot see it as proper for Muslims to talk about this all the time and think that the ballot box is the real meaning of life. Of course the ballot box holds a crucial importance for the future of this country; but it is not everything. It is impossible not to become upset realizing that focusing on the ballot box only makes some people comfortable in telling lies. As for the debate on who we should vote for, I have always asked my friends to cast their votes based on their personal conviction. I believe that asking them to vote for a certain party is a type of pressure; in addition, I also consider engagement with a certain party isolation from other segments of society. Our clear and plain stance in the referendum was not for a certain party; it was for the introduction of democratic steps. It appears that this stance is not being appreciated.

There is now a party chairman who constantly throws around insults. And, unfortunately, the wise men of that party prefer deep silence. With the exception of strong partisans, I have frequently noticed that the AK Party support base is upset with this. If a person internalizes and acknowledges such grave accusations and insults, he or she may still vote for that party; but I believe that these remarks which would be hurtful to anybody have also been hurtful to our friends. Everyone will consider their own situation and analyze the mayoral candidates. In the end, this is not a general election. The candidates are more important than the parties; there are many valuable candidates in all parties. Whatever party you vote for, you will not have committed a sin.

Speculations abound regarding your stay in the US and about whether you will return to Turkey. Can you comment on this matter?
I wanted to think well of those who had asked me to return. Similar calls had previously been made. Regarding these calls, I could sense the real intention. But I continue to stick to courtesy and a positive attitude toward believers. First and foremost, I am just a believer among many believers. I have always kept my feet on the ground. This is the way I have lived my life. In my opinion, the highest station one can attain is to be a true servant of God. It is my wish to die in this station. I have no connection or ties to any external power, force or group. Such a thing is out of question. Those caught in the web of external powers, forces or groups are those who run after prosperity, power and other worldly stations or posts. Unfortunately, those who aspire to seize power despotically upon growing stronger and to never abandon it start to see as a danger those who don't nurture aspirations for power and who even specifically refrain from such pursuits with a focus on how to attain God's contentment and His bliss in the Hereafter. They try to portray these people as a threat to the state, but they essentially perceive them as a threat to their plans.

Even in the most underdeveloped societies, people are tried for their words and acts and verdicts are passed about them based on what they say or do. People and authorities know and have observed my acts and words for the last 50 years. Is it possible for a person who has a secret agenda to conceal this agenda for 50 years?

I will decide about whether or not to return to Turkey not based on the convictions of some people but after consulting with friends whose intentions I find considerably sincere. As I said before, if I return, I will return not as someone else but as I am -- as the son of Ramiz Efendi who served as the imam of the Üç Şerefeli Cami [mosque].

You have for some time now stopped delivering sermons over the Internet. Those affiliated with the movement wonder about your sentiments under such strong pressure and insults. Is there anything you would like to tell them?
We have to remain patient in the face of what is happening to us. We should never abandon our lenient and decent style. People have suffered from different problems in different periods. Important figures such as Imam Rabbani, Hasan al-Shadhili and Mawlana Baghdadi have suffered. The brutality and persecution Bediüzzaman was subjected to should be remembered. He was subjected to all sorts of brutality. We are not comparable to these remarkable people. But if this is their case and this is their method, then we need to be willing to take all sorts of sufferings. We should not resent. We need to pray to God all the time and tell Him, “We are content with God as our Lord, and with Islam as our religion, and with Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, as our Prophet.” We should never feel offended by the way He treats us. We should always be content with Him.

Troubles are temporary. If our communication and relationship with God is perfect, we will secure our afterlife even when we experience huge troubles. If they do not seek worldly advantages and assets, those who dedicate themselves to this cause will have eternal gains in the afterlife. Everybody should stay where they are. Depending on the circumstances and the conjuncture, different options should be tried to reach the destination even if they block the main road and options. That destination is universal human values. These people I referred to above were never pessimistic; so we should be like them. We should keep our hopes high. “Hopelessness is such a quagmire that if you fall into it, you will drown; but if you grab on to your resolution, you will be saved.” This is what Mehmet Akif [a renowned Turkish poet] says about hopelessness. We believe that this bleak weather and climate will eventually disappear. We have always held this hope.

You also referred to what I have been subjected to so far. I did not complete my military service when the May 27 [1960] coup was staged. I was persecuted then. I was persecuted in the March 12 [1971] coup. I had to run away like a bandit for six years during the Sept. 12 [1980] coup. Former President Turgut Özal exerted his authority at a time when he was feeling strong; so they left me alone. But this was not the end. I traveled to Mecca to perform the Hajj. Things were unpleasant for me once again. I gave a statement at a state security court. The legal case Prosecutor Nuh Mete Yüksel filed in the aftermath of Feb. 28 [the 1997 coup] lasted for years. Despite the denigration I was subjected to in that case, the chief prosecutor here in New Jersey showed me respect. He welcomed me at the door [to the building]. He helped me to the [witness] chair himself so that I could sit down. He then washed his own glass, filled it with water and offered it to me, telling me that my mouth may go dry given that I was testifying. I experienced this here. He did not know me at all. Then we discussed as to whether we should send him a gift for this gentle treatment. When I presented him a gift, he said he could not accept a gift from a person whose legal case he had handled. I said to myself that these people still survive despite all negative developments thanks to this legal philosophy. Because of this legal understanding, they still play an influential role in world politics.

I should also tell you that I was imprisoned during my military service because I was delivering sermons. A commander who was protecting me allowed me to deliver sermons, which he also attended. As he was preparing to leave our unit, he hugged me in tears and said I would face repression after he goes. And what he said came to be. They sent me to prison. I have also been subjected to different types of persecution and repression at different times. However, the things I am experiencing now are not comparable to what I experienced in the past. The lies, insults and denigrating remarks… But everyone reflects their own character in their attitudes and remarks. In the end, we cannot say anything to anybody.

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A new constitution needed to exit from turmoil

Turkey is going through hard times. Sometimes people become pessimistic because of the ongoing turmoil. How, in your opinion, can Turkey get out of this atmosphere?
Above all, I should stress that in such times it is strongly necessary to pray to God and seek refuge in His mercy. We should be worried about the fate of those who are not worried about their fate. Those who feel content all the time and hold doubts about the faith of others will face a great danger from the religious perspective. ‘Umar [the second caliph] was concerned about his fate [despite being one of the 10 people who have been promised Paradise]. And so we should be worried about our fate. We need to seek refuge in His mercy and protection. We need to say, “O God, hold my hand. For if You do not, I will be doomed.” Like individuals, faith and submission are sanctuaries for communities as well. Those who do not seek refuge in this sanctuary may be crushed under their ego. May God protect us from this.

This is one side of the coin. The other side is as follows: In order to overcome the current turmoil, this country needs a new climate. A new constitution is a must to guarantee fundamental rights and freedoms. I believe there should be growing popular demand and pressure on the relevant figures and institutions so that they will make a democratic constitution based on the recognition of universal legal principles. Many intellectuals offer similar analyses. A Turkey which moves away from its own values and people will also move away from the world.

Today, individuals and societies have greater importance than their states. It is impossible to implement a project that is imposed on the people. At the beginning of this century, Bediüzzaman said predominance over the civilized is possible through persuasion, not coercion. Therefore, repression of people will not remain the same all the time. They cannot be permanent. We have to approach the events and developments via patience, prudence and caution. If you approach the developments via the patience and submission they deserve and deal with them as such, reason will dominate eventually. And when this happens, those who had engaged in sin before will feel embarrassed; and you open up your hearts noting that this is not a day of condemnation and making sure that they do not feel this way.
This has been the case throughout history. If you are traveling in the opposite direction when people are moving away from you; the distance between you becomes larger. And the day you need union and cooperation you will realize that you have made a mistake. You realize this but it is too late. We need to think about nothing but committing ourselves to our service and duties. This is my humble opinion on this matter.

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Fethullah Gulen's Interview with Today's Zaman [Part 4]

Gülen calls for respect of diversity in Turkey to end polarization

Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen, who has inspired the popular civic and social movement called Hizmet, called for the respect of diversity in Turkey, expressing his concern over growing polarization in society.

  “I believe it is extremely dangerous to polarize society along various lines or identities in Turkey”, he said, stressing that “everyone must respect diversity. Freedom of speech and expression cannot be restricted.”

“While the views of the majority certainly deserve respect, the views of minority groups should be treated with the same level of respect as well”, he added.

Describing Turkish society as a big family whose members subscribe to different ideologies, Gülen asked, “How can a parent incite some members of the family against other members of the same family who hold different ideologies?”

“This is akin to playing with fire,” he warned.

Gülen's remarks are a direct criticism of embattled Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's harsh rhetoric pitting various social groups against each other on the eve of local elections scheduled for March 30 with the purpose of consolidating support for his ruling party.

“If you suppress the masses, this will cause friction along social fault lines. And this is such a big risk that no political party can take for whatever political gain,” Gülen underlined.

Recalling his comments on the government's ill-advised policies on how to handle mass protests during the Gezi Park events, Gülen said: “[The protesters] voiced democratic demands and, initially, there were innocent protests. These protests could have been tolerated.”

“Instead, the protests were violently suppressed,” he lamented.

“Is the shopping center that was to be built there worth a single drop of blood [shed during the protests]? Is it worth a single human life?” the Islamic scholar asked.

Responding to slander and baseless accusations targeting the Hizmet movement, Gülen expressed his anguish over the unbearable smear campaign. “I suppose people have never been insulted or encountered such extensive lies and slanderous remarks before,” he stated, stressing that the Holy Quran recommends sensitivity and a soft heart.

“When the hardness of the heart takes the soul hostage, one can resort to every method to attain his goals irrespective of whether they are legitimate or not,” he explained.

Reaffirming his views on the settlement process to resolve the Kurdish problem, Gülen noted that he has always favored peace and reconciliation over violence to settle the issue.

“This [settlement process] shouldn't be disrupted. This is a good opportunity for both sides to forget about hostilities and turn back from their mistakes,” he explained.

He criticized the government, however, for belated steps in tackling the Kurdish issue, saying that fundamental rights and freedoms should not be seen or used as a card in bargaining.

“Even before the settlement process began, I had expressed my perspective about education in one's mother tongue. But no step was taken to this end. This matter is still in abeyance,” he lamented.
The Islamic scholar also suggested that “in addition to recognizing the due rights and freedoms of its Kurdish citizens, Turkey must extend a helping hand to the Kurds in other regions. We must re-establish and reinforce our cultural and historical ties with them.”

Here are excerpts from the interview:

During the Ambassadors' Conference in Ankara, ambassadors were told to “explain well this organization” at their posts abroad. In a sense, Turkish ambassadors were ordered to denounce the Turkish schools abroad. Can you comment on this order?
When I hear news about Turkish officials' efforts to undermine the Turkish schools abroad, my heart aches and I seek refuge in God. Unfortunately, this appetite for destruction pushes all fair limits. These schools were established through the great self-sacrifice of the people of Anatolia. Almost everyone in Turkey has seen these schools, be they rightists, leftists, neo-nationalists, the religious or atheists, officials from the AK Party, the [main opposition] Republican People's Party (CHP), the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP), the Grand Unity Party (BBP), the Felicity Party (SP), the Peace and Democracy Party (BDP) -- people from all walks of life. I have not heard even one person say, "These schools are harmful, and they should be shut down." No rational or political argument or criterion can be employed to advocate the closure of these schools.

Our friends who established these schools faced numerous material and immaterial hardships. They brought the embracing nature of the people of Anatolia to these countries. With them, they brought the Anatolian people's tolerance. They took our universal values with them. To turn a blind eye to the activities of these people who introduce our culture and language to all the countries of the world is ingratitude. You cannot conceal this manifest truth. Whatever they do, this wise society sees and knows everything. Therefore, their failure to prevent these activities or undermine these schools may lead them to delirium. They are struggling uncontrollably. This also needs to be known.

Turkey cannot emerge as a strong international player in the globalizing world if you fail to ensure that volunteer organizations and lobbies support Turkey in the international arena. Turkey cannot survive if it isolates itself from the external world. In this day and age, this applies not only to Turkey but to every other country as well. Turkey needs the support of the people who nurture love and sympathy for it everywhere around the world. Societies need to know more about and understand each other for global peace.

I feel much pain in seeing how these charity activities are being sabotaged and misrepresented in the eyes of foreign people. Despite this, we will try to maintain our respect and politeness toward everyone. This is what we have always done and will always do as this is what our character tells us to do.

In this transient world, we will speak ill of no one; we will not break anyone's heart; we will continue to promote good and amiable relations with everyone. Our actions will be guided by the following words of Bediüzzaman Said Nursi: "I forgive everyone who caused me hardship and anguish, the torture I was subjected to, and the ordeals I went through for many years. I have known nothing of worldly pleasure in my life of over 80 years. I have spent all my life on the battleground, in dungeons or in prison. I was barred from communication for months. I was treated like a criminal at war tribunals. I forgive those who oppressed me, those who sent me into exile many times, those who sought to put me in prison on trumped-up charges, and those who paved the way for my imprisonment."

True, as a believer, I promised to share these feelings. I will not be angry with anyone. I promised to welcome death smiling and treat divine hardship and bliss as the same.

Our friends should not despair. With God's grace and permission, this service done for this nation, for the future of this nation and for all of humanity will continue. Thanks to God's favor and generosity, neither slander nor ill-intentioned campaigns can halt this bandwagon of service. People with a pure conscience and mind will soon uncover this slander and these lies.

As I noted elsewhere, there may be certain fanatical efforts to block our path, but as long as there are souls who are open to dialogue, tender people who smile at everyone, conscientious people who are aware of their sins, souls who regret their wrong or misguided deeds, and wise people who seek to build their future on reasonableness, we will mend our shattered souls and recover ourselves and continue to love everyone anew. This is what we should do with respect to the recent developments.
On the other hand, I believe it is extremely dangerous to polarize society along various lines or identities in Turkey. This is akin to playing with fire. How can a parent incite some members of the family against other members of the same family who hold different ideologies? We are a large family with roots dating back several centuries. We must refrain from treating our differing ideologies and diverse identities as reasons to quarrel or engage in conflict. Everyone must respect diversity. Freedom of speech and expression cannot be restricted. While the views of the majority certainly deserve respect, the views of minority groups should be treated with the same level of respect as well. If you suppress the masses, this will cause friction along social fault lines. And this is such a big risk that no political party can take for whatever political gain.

Unfortunately, this is what happened during the Gezi Park protests. The people voiced democratic demands and, initially, there were innocent protests. These protests could have been tolerated. Officials could have visited the protesters and learned about their demands. Instead, the protests were violently suppressed. Is the shopping center that was to be built there worth a single drop of blood [shed during the protests]? Is it worth a single human life? Naturally, pressure led to violence and a local issue turned into a national security issue. And the evil networks which were waiting for an opportunity to stir up chaos stepped onto the stage, and we were very concerned at that time. Our friends all around the world prayed for peace. They prayed the Prayer of Need. And yet it was said that these protests were somehow masterminded by the Hizmet movement. May God endow them with understanding.

Some circles recently used the term “supreme mastermind” to tarnish the image of the Hizmet movement and imply that the movement is supported by external actors.
Making this accusation is a grave sin. I suppose people have never been insulted or encountered such extensive lies and slanderous remarks before. If there is something they are aware of, they should inform the public about it; otherwise, they are denigrating Muslims. The smear campaign is so unbearable that we are witnessing new lies and even slander every day. The desire for prosperity makes hearts insensitive; and in that case, you cannot feel properly. You ignore spirituality; you even humiliate it. When the heart becomes insensitive and attaches great importance to the world through the desire for prosperity, you'll suppose that it is all about this world. And then you simply do not worry about committing sins. The Quran recommends sensitivity and emotion in the heart. When the hardness of the heart takes the soul hostage, one can resort to every method to attain his goals irrespective of whether they are legitimate or not. Sadly, one of the reasons for the current stalemate is hardness in the hearts. But if they are looking for a mastermind of the Hizmet movement, I would say it is the solidarity and protection that God bestows on consultation and brotherhood.

The Hizmet movement does not depend on any fading and mortal power or actor; it has made advances because God has been graceful; as long as He protects, no one will ever hurt it. Muslims are supposed to act with caution. They do not backbite about their brothers and sisters based on false reports. Unfortunately, there is no room for the afterlife in the agendas of those who express their desires for worldly possessions all the time. This may drive the people towards social deviation and religious distortion. Many unusual statements that contradict with religious belief have been made. Media outlets covered them extensively. These are contradictory to religious norms; but even those who are supposed to remain silent are talking. We can save our souls from the disorder and corruption surrounding us by renewing our thoughts and emotions on a daily basis. Hearts are hardened if theoretical Islam turns into a lifestyle and, in that case, one forgets about his own responsibility and slanders Muslims all the time. Things will settle down eventually. People in this country will look at each other's face again. People who turn in the same direction [i.e., towards Makkah] while performing their prayers should avoid making strong remarks that they would feel ashamed of in the future.
---- In the fifth and last part of this series, to be published tomorrow, Gülen explains his views on the upcoming elections and talks about a brand new constitution to make a fresh start in Turkey.

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‘Kurds' right should not be used as a card in bargaining'

What do you think about the settlement process and its current state?
This is something I had spoken about previously on a number of occasions. A believer always favors peace. A believer adopts the attitude required for peace. There are problems that have accumulated over time. In the past, violence was wielded to solve these problems. But this did not settle it; it only exacerbated it further. Now there is a process of peace and reconciliation. This shouldn't be disrupted. This is a good opportunity for both sides to forget about hostilities and turn back from their mistakes.
A state must be fair in its dealings with its citizens. Fundamental rights and freedoms should not be seen or used as a card in bargaining.

Even before the settlement process began, I had expressed my perspective about education in one's mother tongue. But no step was taken to this end. This matter is still in abeyance. At once we must raise teachers who are capable of teaching in Kurdish. This is not something that can be done upon demands from the public. The state must take the first step. In taking this step, we must refrain from words, attitudes and behavior that may give the impression that we are doing this as a favor. The region was home to numerous major civilizations and intellectuals. In addition to recognizing the due rights and freedoms of its Kurdish citizens, Turkey must extend a helping hand to the Kurds in other regions. We must re-establish and reinforce our cultural and historical ties with them.

We have three fundamental problems: These were outlined by Bediüzzaman almost a century ago as ignorance, poverty and disunity. These problems have bred despair, deception, circumvention, mutual distrust, and so on. We need to discuss these problems on a common platform. This is not something that can be done with disdain and arrogance. If conciliation is to be achieved, this would be all-inclusive, embracing the entirety of the region and diverse groups. No one should be excluded from it. Common denominators should be found to embrace political and non-political groups. We should let local people solve their problems with their own capabilities. If quick steps are not taken in this regard, I fear the settlement process may come to a halt. Fine, let us focus on stopping the bloodshed. Even this indicates a certain level of pragmatism. But we should have targets beyond that point. We must create an atmosphere in which everyone -- Turks, Kurds, Sunnis, Alevis, Arabs, Syriacs, and so on -- can co-exist as members of the same family in happiness and prosperity.

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