Rumi Forum's blog on Hizmet, Fethullah Gulen, peacebuilding, education and interfaith efforts.

Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts
Showing posts with label interview. Show all posts

Tuesday, August 8, 2017

Exclusive: Interview with Fethullah Gülen, home sickness and fabricated coup

Please note translation in some areas is not accurate







Sat, Jul. 15, 2017
CAIRO - 15 July 2017: It is not easy to find a Turkish political dissident old man who is being chased by regimes and terrorist organizations from all over the world. Fethullah Gülen, leader of Hizmet movement who has been living as a Political refugee in Pennsylvania, USA for more than 20 years talked to Egypt Today through email about several issues, including the current political regime in Turkey, the real reasons of his dispute with Erdogan and his expectations for his country’s future: 

[Read more Gulen interviews and op-eds here - including New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, BBC, Politico, Asharq Al-Awsat, Le Monde, Reuters and many more ]

A year after July 15, 2016 coup, how do you evaluate what happened during this period? 

Turkey has witnessed a lot of injustice and freedoms violation during the past period, not only after July 15, even before that. The ruler party has controlled the judiciary system, as you can tell there is not any independence in the way it- Judiciary system- works. 

Huge number of sever repressive practices were applied on civilians for the first time in the Turkish history, even some American media outlets started to make comparisons between what is happening now in Turkey and what some dictators like Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse-tung did. 


You have been accused of being responsible of the July 15 coup against Recep Tayyip Erdogan. In your opinion who is responsible for it? 


In the same night, I condemned the coup attempt and assured that I’m not responsible for it and that I don’t have any relation with any of its planners, Erdogan insisted that I’m responsible even before starting the investigations; however these accusations are neither real nor true. 

I am not in a position that allows me to accuse anyone with a coup attempt; however according to some media, analysts and experts reports this attempt was not planned to be a real coup. Some of the secular nationalist hardliners designed this movement to look like a coup; accordingly, Erdogan troops will have the chance to get rid of all the Turkish army members who supports me. This would allow the Turkish president to tighten his powers over the army and give his militants the chance to go within the army troops. 

Shortly after the coup, I suggested to make international investigations to know the truth about what really happened during this night. I announced that I am willing to buy a ticket myself and go back to Turkey if I was convicted with planning to the coup attempt; however, Erdogan refused. 

How do you see Erdogan’s rule? 

The experts have discussed Erdogan’s law state and his eligibility to take the office, especially after the allegations that went viral regarding forging his university degree; however, personal wise I do respect Erdogan, but I do not think he has the required qualifications to be the president. 

I think Erdogan is now following the steps of the worst dictators the history have known. 

What the Turkish people can do regarding the state of repression it faces.. And do you think Erdogan can be sued internationally? 

It seems that there is no one left to say “enough” to Erdogan, most of the people who tried to stop him before are now in jail, and if the opposition can’t find a way to defend the civilian and constitutional rights then it’s completely useless. Some of them used to ignore the regime injustice just because they weren’t targeted by its actions, but they didn’t know that it will get to them one day as well, as for the Turkish people have many different ways to express their anger and abjection in peaceful ways. 

Some of the Arab countries decided to cut its diplomatic relations with Qatar, how do you see the Qatari-Turkish relations now, and what do you think of the establishment of a Turkish military base in Qatar? 

Excuse me, but I do not want to talk about issues could be related to other countries political affairs; however, I never been convinced that Erdogan is really confronting ISIS. From a way I think he is pretending to help the international coalition to confront ISIS, but from another he is financing the terrorist groups in north Syria. 


ISIS militants are being treated in the Turkish hospitals, to be released later without any interrogation or investigation. Most of the media outlets know that already but I think that the United States and the European Union do not want to take serious actions against turkey for many reasons including Turkey’s strategic location and the Syrian refugees’ issue. 

I also think that the turkey regime is trying to blackmail Egypt and intervene in its affairs through using Muslim brotherhood. 

How far you think Hizmet movement has been oppressed by Erdogan regime?

They shut all the organizations affiliated to the movement inside Turkey, dismissed more than 120,000 employees, and jailed about other 50.000. All of those did nothing but being members of a political party. 

Do you expect the coup attempt to be repeated anytime soon against Erdogan? 

Regardless that the 15 July attempt was not a ‘real coup’, I do not think that any military movement could talk place against the current government. Despite all the aggressive actions they used against the opposition, I don’t second any non-democratic way of ending the Erdogan rule. 


Earlier, Erdogan accused you of being ‘hypocrite’ and terrorism supporter.., what do you think of that? 


Until December 25, 2013, my relation with Erdogan was great, we used to meet and talk; however, I cannot understand what happened after that date made the Turkish government very angry with me. 

All of this started when Erdogan government’s members were accused of being involved in corruption cases, the following day Erdogan’s perspective towards Hizmet movement was changed, although all of our activities remained the same. The only one who should be asked about all of these accusations is Erdogan. Still however, we hope that he returns to the right democratic track he used to take during the first years of his rule. 


Some of the Turkish people organized a protest in front of the white House demanding your extradition to their government. Who do you think is financing and supporting these demonstrations, and how far you think you are secured and protected by the American administration? 

Most of the demonstrations organized in the United States are usually against the current Turkish regime and the justice and development party; however, there are some organizations with very good relation with the Turkey-ruler political party inside the U.S., and there are very high expectations that they are getting financial aid and support from the Turkish government. 

I live in the United States for nearly twenty years, so I can say that the American government provides security for all its citizens and visitors without any discrimination. I am sure that the officials here are extremely aware of the situation my political movement and I are facing and that they have the potentials and ability to handle the situation. 


Since when you are away from your home, and do you still want to go back to Turkey? 

I miss my homeland, and wish I can go back to the place I love, but I don’t want this visit to cause other problems of any kind, as I will not be able to go back as long as the current regime is ruling. 


Do you have anything you want to say to the Arab and Turkish people? 

There are too many things in common between the Arab and Turkey people. We could have used these things in common; however, we are living very hard days. From one side we have these terrorist and armed groups which distort Islam all around the world, and from the other side we have regimes knows how to get benefits from the existence of these groups and don’t think of anything but its own interest. 

I ask all of the Muslims everywhere to pray to God for our salvation.

Thursday, July 27, 2017

Accused Turkish Cleric Assails President on Anniversary of Coup Attempt

Fethullah Gulen, in interview with the Wall Street Journal speaks out against Recep Tayyip Erdogan



By Alan Cullison
July 14, 2017 4:24 p.m. ET

SAYLORSBURG, Pa.—The reclusive cleric who was accused by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of planning a coup attempt one year ago from his gated U.S. compound urged in a rare interview that the West stand up to what he called Turkey’s increasingly authoritarian leader.

[Read more Gulen interviews and op-eds here - including New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, BBC, Politico, Asharq Al-Awsat, Le Monde, Reuters and many more ]


In an ornate conference room in his home in the Pocono Mountains, the cleric Fethullah Gulen repeated his declaration that he has never been involved in any coup-plotting. He decried Mr. Erdogan for launching a purge within Turkey, the brunt of which has fallen on his followers.

Fethullah Gulen, shown on Wednesday in Saylorsburg, Pa., criticized Turkey’s president for his crackdown following a failed coup one year ago. Photo: Sasha Maslov for The Wall Street Journal

“I never thought that he could go so bad,” said Mr. Gulen, who said that the Turkish president was unleashing mass hysteria inside the country. “Some parts of Turkish society have lost their ability to think.”

Since last July, Turkey has arrested or driven from their jobs tens of thousands of people Turkish authorities accuse of supporting Mr. Gulen. The government has closed hospitals and schools affiliated with his social movement, Hizmet, which translates roughly as “service.”

The Turkish government said it has seized up to $4 billion in property previously owned by businessmen or foundations alleged to be linked to the movement.

“Nothing like this has been seen before in Turkey,” Mr. Gulen said. “It can only be compared with Lenin and Stalin or Saddam in Iraq.”

Turkey is now investigating 160,000 people, and 50,000 have been arrested, with 48,000 of them released, according to Turkey’s ambassador to the U.S., Serdar Kilic. There are outstanding arrest warrants for about 8,000 people, he said.

In a news conference held Friday to commemorate the first anniversary of the coup attempt, Mr. Kilic supported the country’s extended state of emergency, saying Mr. Gulen’s followers have spent decades in the ranks of government and it would take time to remove them.

Mr. Kilic continued to blame Mr. Gulen for organizing last July’s failed plot, and pressed Turkey’s demand for extradition.

TOP: A soldier accused of attempting to assassinate Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on the night of the failed July 15, 2016 coup is carried to a Turkish courthouse. BELOW: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan speaks during a ceremony marking the failed coup, in Ankara on Thursday. Photo: kenan gurbuz/Reuters (TOP) ; Adem Altan/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images (ABOVE)

He said he saw “more willingness” on the part of the Trump administration to entertain the extradition request, but that the process is “not moving as fast” as Turkey would like.

Wyn Hornbuckle, a Justice Department spokesman, declined to comment Friday, saying the Justice Department doesn’t speak publicly about extradition requests.

“I believe that there are certain measures that the U.S. authorities can take,” Mr. Kilic said, “including limitations on his activities in the United States. He’s still freely giving interviews to newspapers. This is not freedom of expression, he’s accusing the Turkish government, he’s sending messages to his supporters in Turkey and he is still traveling.”

Mr. Gulen said that his movement is also coming under pressure outside of Turkey as Ankara tries to persuade countries to shut down his movement’s schools in other countries. Many governments have refused, his aides said, but others have been currying favor with Ankara by shutting down schools and transferring property to the Turkish government.

Mr. Gulen described what he called rising chauvinism and racism in Turkey—as well as Europe and the U.S.—but said traditional institutions weren’t addressing them head on. “NATO has a potential, the European Parliament has a potential,” he said. “But in their current state they don’t seem to be addressing these problems right now.”

On July 15, 2016, mutinous elements of the Turkish military took to the streets, tanks opened fire on civilians and jet fighters bombed parliament as part of the unsuccessful coup attempt, during which commandos also made a botched effort to catch or kill the Turkish president. More than 240 people died in the violence.

The Turkish government alleges that Mr. Gulen’s followers in his homeland have been plotting for years to take over the state through powerful positions in the military and judiciary and across the civil service. Authorities in Ankara liken him to a cult leader.

Mr. Gulen, who has been a resident of the U.S. since 1999, said he supports a modern and moderate version of Islam that supports democracy, science and tolerance.

His presence in the U.S. was an early quandary for President Donald Trump, who sought closer relations with Turkey and whose former national security adviser, Mike Flynn, had performed lobbying work on behalf of the Turkish government.

Aides to Mr. Gulen said they think any extradition to Turkey is less likely after the resignation of Mr. Flynn, who had failed to disclose the extent of his contacts with foreign officials.

In the interview, Mr. Gulen said that the Turkish president’s authoritarian streak was on display during his visit to Washington earlier this year, when Mr. Erdogan’s personal bodyguards attacked protesters outside the Turkish Embassy. Federal prosecutors in the U.S. later filed charges against at least 10 members of the detail.

“They are not like guards, they are like assassins who are so devoted to their leader that they will not refrain from shooting people,” he said.

The Turkish Embassy said at the time that the Erdogan supporters were responding in self-defense to terrorist sympathizers.

Mr. Gulen—a powerful orator known as the Hocaefendi, or respected teacher, by his followers—has written numerous books and delivered emotional video speeches.

His group, formed at a time when Turks feared religious persecution by a secular government, has often been cagey about its membership, contributing to allegations that he in fact was running a secret cult.

Graham Fuller, former vice chairman of the U.S. National Intelligence Council who has defended Mr. Gulen’s movement as a positive force for moderate Islam in today’s world, said the allegation is no longer deserved. “Over the last decade or more it has had a very public face,” he said.

In Turkey, Gulenists have spread throughout state institutions such as the courts and the military “to ensure these institutions would not be used against them again,” said Mr. Fuller, who in 2006 wrote a letter to the FBI defending Mr. Gulen against attempts to extradite him.

Mr. Gulen in Saylorsburg on Wednesday. Photo: Sasha Maslov for The Wall Street Journal

—Felicia Schwartz contributed to this article.

Write to Alan Cullison at alan.cullison@wsj.com

Appeared in the July 15, 2017, print edition as ‘Turkish Cleric Assails President.’

Gulen admits meeting key figure in Turkey coup plot, dismisses Erdogan’s ‘senseless’ claims

Fethullah Gulen’s interview with France 24 on the anniversary of the failed Turkish coup attempt.



Latest update: 2017-07-19

Video by Philip CROWTHER, Leela JACINTO

Text by Leela JACINTO

In an exclusive interview with FRANCE 24, Fethullah Gulen admitted meeting a key figure in Turkey’s July 2016 attempted coup. But the Turkish cleric said that a mere visit from one of his followers isn’t proof he orchestrated the failed coup.

[Read more Gulen interviews and op-eds here - including New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, BBC, Politico, Asharq Al-Awsat, Le Monde, Reuters and many more ]

Turkey’s most-wanted man shuffles into a spacious room that doubles as a prayer space in his rural Pennsylvania home-in-exile. The reclusive, 76-year-old Turkish cleric is ailing and notoriously averse to press coverage.

But ever since the Turkish government accused him of masterminding the failed July 15, 2016 coup bid, Gulen has been forced to grant a few interviews, to which he succumbs with gruff resignation.

Gulen has been living in a gated compound, called the “Golden Generation Retreat and Worship Center,” in Pennsylvania’s Pocono Mountains since 1999, when he arrived in the US for medical treatment. Turkey has expressed dismay over what it views as a US failure to advance its demand for Gulen’s extradition.

But from his sprawling, verdant compound in Saylorsburg, located around 160 kilometres from Philadelphia, Gulen appeared fairly confident he will live out his days in the USA.

When asked if he fears the warming personal relations between US President Donald Trump and his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, could mean a fast-tracked extradition, Gulen replied, “I don’t think either him [Trump] or any other US president will risk tarnishing the reputation of the United States around the world and submit to these unreasonable demands by the Turkish president. So I’m not worried about that possibility.”

The septuagenarian cleric may be living 8,000 kilometres away from Turkey, but he was well-informed about the latest developments in his homeland.

A year after the ill-planned and executed attempt to oust Erdogan’s government, the focus of the investigation in Turkey appears to hinge on one mysterious, missing man: Adil Oksuz. The Turkish government says Oksuz, a cleric, is a Gulenist who instigated the coup bid. On the night of the coup attempt he was spotted near an Ankara military base, briefly detained, and then released. He has since gone missing. The government claims that before the July 2016 coup attempt, Oksuz travelled to the US, where he visited Gulen. Photographs of Oksuz and his child with Gulen in Pennsylvania have appeared in the Turkish press as proof of Gulen’s personal involvement in the putsch bid.

Gulen acknowledged that around 30 years ago, when Oksuz was a student, he was part of a study circle within the movement. “Adil Oksuz, at one time, I think when he was studying at school, he became part of our study circle,” he replied.

But while he acknowledged the Turkish government’s account that Oksuz had visited the Golden Generation Retreat and Recreation Center before the July 2016 coup bid, Gulen dismissed allegations that the visit constituted the smoking gun in the coup investigation. “A few years ago, he [Oksuz] came here once. I later saw in the media this picture with his child with me. This is something hundreds of people do. From taking a picture to making that kind of connection would be jumping to conclusions.”

‘There are photos of me with everyone’

Gulen went on to list a number of senior members of Erdogan’s AK Party who had visited him in Pennsylvania before the July 2016 coup bid. The Gulenists and the AK Party were allies before a 2013 falling out, after the Gulenists in the judiciary and civil services began unravelling corruption allegations against Erdogan’s inner circle.

He claimed the roster of visitors to Pennsylvania, back in the days when the Gulenists and the AK Party were allies, included former Turkish president, Abdullah Gul, and Hakan Fidan, current head of Turkey’s foreign spy agency, MIT (National Intelligence Organisation). The Turkish cleric proceeded to repeat allegations, circulating in some opposition circles, that Oksuz was linked to the Turkish intelligence services.

“Indeed former president Abdullah Gul visited me – before he became president or prime minister or something,” said Gulen. “When you consider Adil Oksuz, they found him somewhere, I don’t remember where it was, and then they released him, and then there turned out be a tie between him and Turkish intelligence. The chief of the intelligence service, Hakan Fidan, also visited here twice and he ate at my nephew’s house here twice. Everyone came here. There are photos of me with everyone. So, to make claims based on visiting me and taking pictures with me is just senseless.”

Oksuz’s alleged links to Turkish intelligence services have not been officially confirmed, and probably never will. The government says he was arrested at Akincilar military base in the early hours of July 16, 2016 and later appeared before a judge, who released Oksuz since the prosecution failed to supply incriminating evidence in the confused, immediate aftermath of the coup. Faced with no evidence, the judge ordered his release. Oksuz has since disappeared without a trace and Turkish security services are seeking the released Gulenist, the government says.

‘This movement…will continue’

A year after the failed coup, Turkey is still under a state of emergency that has seen a massive crackdown on opposition supporters, journalists and human rights defenders. More than 150,000 judges, civil servants and employees at state-run institutions have been fired for their alleged links to the proscribed PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) or FETO (Fethullah Gulen Terrorist Organisation) – a term employed by the government for the Gulenist movement – or Hizmet, as followers of the Turkish cleric call their movement.

Among the victims of the purge, the Gulenists appear the hardest hit inside Turkey. On the international front, foreign governments have come under pressure from Turkish authorities to shut down the movement’s schools across the world.

Despite the crackdown, Gulen was adamant that his movement’s days were not over. “In 170 countries, our movement’s schools are still operating, including in the US, Brussels, Europe,” he said. “So I think this is a sign that this movement, whose core value is love, will continue. The politicians, their time is limited. They will go by democratic means. But this movement, which is anchored in love, will continue.”

Watch interview here: https://youtu.be/XEhsX2mCDD8
Source: http://www.france24.com/en/20170718-gulen-admits-meeting-key-man-turkey-coup-plot-dismisses-erdogan-senseless-claims

Friday, October 3, 2014

Fethullah Gulen's interview with Italy's OASIS Journal

Below is an interview that Fethullah Gulen gave to the Italian journal OASIS in December 2010.

***Read more interviews with Fethullah Gulen including WSJ, NY Times, BBC and more here


Fethullah GülenInterview by Michele Brignone

Fethullah Gülen is one of the most influential intellectuals on the planet. A Muslim, born in Turkey, a polymath active in many areas, he was at the origin of an international movement affecting civil society, the economy, and especially education: “the greatest gift a generation can give to another.”
In 2008 the magazine Foreign Policy, on the basis of a survey, defined the Turkish thinker Fethullah Gülen the most influential intellectual in the planet. Gülen dislikes being defined a spiritual leader; yet, his experience has generated a worldwide Islamic movement particularly active in the sphere of education. As his master Said Nursi, Gülen thinks that the Koran should be read without altering its contents and always in the light of the Islamic tradition. A teacher, writer, thinker, imam, and a protagonist of the inter-religious dialogue, Gülen is active on many fronts. His purpose, he affirms in this interview, is one: “to make the name of God known in every corner of the earth.”

Could you speak about the experiences, encounters or circumstances that have marked your life? Recently, we visited the city of Urfa, where we saw the tomb of Said Nursi. What has been the impact of this thinker and reformist on your personal and intellectual development? 

I can confidently say that I have always been deeply touched by the self-sacrificing efforts and altruism of our friends in this movement of volunteers who selflessly strive for the good of humanity. These services (hizmet as they are called in Turkish) include educational activities that initially began in only a few places, with humble means, then developed with small steps here and there, and then gradually extended to all around Turkey and the world. These educators were well aware of the fact that they were going to face many difficulties. They received support from philanthropic wealthy people, foundations and associations, but they indeed experienced very serious destitution and hardships. If my opinion means anything, I would say that Bediüzzaman Said Nursi[1] is the greatest thinker of this age, a person of action who deeply suffered from the sorrows that inflicted Islam and the whole of humanity, and committed himself to his cause. He was a great scholar and a hero of high morality, honour, self-containment, and service to humanity. His thoughts and his way of living have deeply inspired and profoundly affected me, like everybody else who has come to learn about him. There have been some great personalities whom I consider as eminent and whom I have admired all my life. For example, I admire the great Sufi masters like Imam Rabbânî[2], Mawlâna Khâlid[3], al-Ghazâlî[4], ‘Abd al-Qâdir al-Jilânî[5] and Muhammad Bahâ’uddîn[6], and have tried hard to comprehend their visions. For me, following their footsteps has always been like walking behind God’s Messenger. From my point of view, Bediüzzaman is distinct because he was a person of this modern era, and I admire his perfect way of perceiving and interpreting this age.

When did you think of transforming your personal experience into an international movement? How would you define the nature and ideals of the Gülen Movement?

Even in this situation in which I am afflicted with serious illnesses, there are still some people who consider me a ‘leader of a religious community’ or ‘sheikh of an order.’ These kinds of words hurt me heavily. I have always recommended and urged people who respect my thoughts and have a positive impression about my person to do works that I consider good and benevolent. I have advised them, for example, to open coaching centres for university entry exams and open schools. Then I realised that, as I recommended the opening of schools, many people responded positively, sharing the same vision. I am only an ordinary Muslim and a citizen, and I have done whatever I have done for my people as a citizen. Today, the notion of this movement—or the ‘community’ as they call it—is comprised of civil people who share the same emotions, similar ideas and join their efforts, searching for best answers and practical outcomes to questions such as “how can we serve best our people? How can we contribute to the advancement of our country both in material and in moral terms? How can we light up minds and illuminate hearts?” As a result of this virtue, these faithful people extended their hands to Asia, Europe, America, and even to Africa, and have built hundreds of schools in the countries to which they have gone. They have established companies and firms that have sponsored the construction of many schools, as they have been done in Turkey. If there has been a role that I have played in this process, and if I am to be credited with serving humanity, it is only by way of the recommendations that I have made. We have no other target than attaining the consent and pleasure of God. I have no other purpose other than the Name of God to be acknowledged in every corner of the world, saving people's faiths and their lives in the hereafter and establishing peace and order for my country and for the whole of humanity. I was, and still am, firmly convinced that real peace and order can only be made possible by the hands of responsible individuals who are highly moral, deeply spiritual, and who determinedly refrain from any corrupt, abusive, improper or despoiling acts.

As you has already stated, among the activities carried out by the Gülen movement, education has a prominent role. Why this emphasis? What does education represent for you and how do you think education can affect the new generations?

The whole world, with the advancement of communication and transportation technology, has become a global village. All nations are now like each other's next door neighbour. Within the mosaic of nations and countries, those nations who have not been able to protect their own patterns and colours will eventually fade and melt away. In the same way, all peoples can maintain their existence by embracing their national identities even more strongly, but in complete reconciliation with the requirements of the modern age and, naturally, in full conformity with universal values. Ali (the fourth Caliph and son-in-law of the Prophet), who acquired a prominent place in Islam, said: “All Muslims are our brothers and sisters in faith and those who are not Muslims are our brothers and sisters in humanity.” “Being human” should be the common ground that unites us all. For this, human beings must be raised in a respectful spirit to moral values and their hearts should be filled with love for their “brothers and sisters” in faith or humanity. Only in this way will we be able to bequeath a world that is more auspicious and felicitous to present and future generations. Throughout the whole of history, preceding generations have assumed responsibility for, and achieved, the education of subsequent generations and performed this as a matter of duty. In this respect, good education has always been the greatest gift one generation can give to another. General education and teaching morals prevent human beings from deviating from being human owing to their carnal appetites and passions. Education, at the same time, discovers and develops the skills and abilities latent in human beings and helps to reveal the latent potentials inherent in their spirit. Education and dialogue are two complementary faces of a project for human civilisation. While one is concerned with raising generations who love peace and fraternity, and therefore raising individuals who are wholesome in intelligence and conscience, the other is, as an indispensable part of the first, concerned with establishing and protecting peace by installing in the newer generations a culture of acceptance of their own status and position and being open to and welcoming all differences.

Your religious commitment seems to challenge secularism – a tenet not only of modern Turkey, but also of the Western countries where the movement has spread. Do you think that the secular models, even in their forms as adopted in Europe and America, are still valid today, or do you think that the relation between politics and religion needs to be reconsidered?

First of all, it must be recalled that secularism is defined as ‘a system where religion does not interfere in worldly affairs, and where the state administration does not interfere in the religious exercises of people, allowing them to comfortably practice their faith in their lives.’ Individuals will decide with their own free will whether they will be a follower of a faith or not, and they cannot be forced in any way to believe in or perform the requirements of a religion. Islam is based on free will and predicates all its principles upon this foundation. Religious belief is sacred; nevertheless, this quality of being sacred requires the absolute condition that religion should not be made an instrument for any kind of worldly gains. Politicising religion and attributing holiness to our own personal opinions and administrative perceptions may eventually drive us to a position which abases and insults religion. The truth of religion needs to be represented in such a way that it is clearly understood as being beyond any political perspective or understanding. Therefore I think that those who politicise religion are actually causing a great deal of harm to religion. Under the light of the most appropriate exegeses of the Qur'an and the Sunna made in this age, it is impossible to consider Islam in conflict with democracy. As far as the legal, philosophical, and political dimensions of secularism are concerned, what we see today is that secularism is applied in various parts of the world within a political sphere, while in some other countries in its legal sense. Secularism, that is, the separation of state and religious affairs, denotes the neutrality of the state in religious affairs, or, as most politicians stress, protecting religion in its own place and status and not allowing it to be negatively interpreted. Political secularism can differ due to personal inclinations and perceptions. But, I think in Turkey, when commenting upon secularism, a sort of laicism which is very different from legal secularism or philosophical secularism is understood. As mentioned in the book by Ali Fuat Başgil[7], entitled Din ve Laiklik (‘Religion and Laicism’) laicism in Turkey was only “a little” similar to modern secularism and the first Turkish annotators initially interpreted laicism as ‘la-dini’, recognizing no space for religion at all in the system. However, a system is a system, which is to say a relative entity, a corporate body, whereas religion is for humans, real people.

A reassessment of the role of Islam in public life is being carried out in Turkey as well. Do you think that this development will succeed in modifying at its roots the political culture of your country and influencing its geopolitical position?

The geopolitical position of Turkey, both today and in the future, is related to Islam's place within society. In the first place, our coming to Anatolia was the consequence of this feeling and this idea. The geopolitical position we acquired later in history, including during the Ottoman period, was also because we were shaped by our devotion to Islam. Therefore, the question here is not whether the place of Islam in society can change Turkey’s geopolitics, it is in what direction that change will be. It has been stated many times before that Muslims in Turkey practice Islam as a religion and that political Islam is something wrong and unnecessary. Religion is between the individual and God, and is based upon sincerity, intimacy, earnestness, seeking God’s approval and consent in every deed and intention. Religion is for the individual to arrange and live his/her life on “the pure, emerald hills of the heart.” It is absolutely wrong to completely disregard this spiritual aspect of religion and to practice it in a ceremonial show, or to turn it into a pretentious display. To politicise Islam in a secular country like Turkey is a great treason against the essence of Islam, and religion must never be used as a political instrument.

Oasis has recently published an interview in which Msgr Padovese pointed out the precarious condition of the Christians of Turkey and the discrimination they undergo. The murder of the Italian Bishop, and the murders of Fr. Andrea Santoro and the Turkish-Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, as well as the murders of other members of religious minorities, seem tragic examples of this situation. In your opinion, what is the present situation of religious freedom in Turkey? 

The core of the issue of freedom of religion and faith is that everybody should be able to freely choose whichever faith they like, observe their religious duties without being subjected to any inhibition, receive the education that is necessary to practice what they believe, and teach their faith to others. Those who see religion only as a matter of personal conviction pertaining only to that person's conscience both distort religion with interpretations that are in conflict with divine statements, and limit its field of application and influence, thus hindering the benefits of religion granted by God to individuals, the family and society. In addition to a firm belief in principles of faith, faith in Islam also includes a full observance of Islamic disciplines and the rigorous practice of moral rules, and involves some other codes related to familial, social and legal life. Only real Muslims who rigorously observe and practice Islam have shown sincere respect for every faith, opinion and philosophy of life, and have always engaged in sincere dialogue and have been very tolerant of the followers of other beliefs. On the contrary, those who cannot understand Islam correctly have treated those people they call ‘others’—of course, if they have power—with violence, brutal force, fights, wars and with many other savage and cruel acts. From the very beginning, the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, approached the followers of other religions with an extraordinary tolerance, motivating his followers also to act in this direction and called them to come to fulfil their duty of being the ‘ummatu-l-wasat’ (the middle-way community far from all kinds of extremism). Muslims have always attended to this call and, excluding the harsh and fanatic attitudes of some people who are afflicted with narrow minds and dark consciences, have always acted in sincere tolerance, have been respectful of the faiths and philosophies of other people, and have never oppressed individuals because of their opinions or religious beliefs. They would not be able to do this anyway, because, the Qur'an, with the verse, ‘There is no compulsion in Religion. The right way stands clearly distinguished from the false…’ (Koran 2:256), openly dictates to them how to behave. Muslims certainly believe that the outcome of adopting religion is an absolute felicity. But, abiding with the verse ‘there is no compulsion in the religion,’ forcing people to convert to Islam is not acceptable. On the contrary, Islam pledges to protect others from any kind of compulsion and guarantees everyone the ability to live their own religion comfortably. Islam's commitments in the name of the freedom of religion and personal conscience are very clear. I think it will be adequate just to give a glance at history. From the bright days of the Prophet, to the Umayyads, Abbasids and to Ottomans, all rulers—save certain exceptions—granted minorities the right to preserve and practice their beliefs, observing freely their religious ceremonies and holy days, educating their children as they liked, uniting under institutions such as foundations and unions in order to continue their existence, restore old buildings of worship, and build new sanctuaries, and did not require anything from them other than that they obeyed the laws and state order.

Islam and Islamic societies are now going through difficult times. How can the Gülen movement contribute to a new interpretation of Islam, provided that a new interpretation is needed?

If some people still attempt to call this togetherness a movement, we should then empathically state that this ‘so-called’ movement has no claim whatsoever to bring to Islam anything new or things peculiar to itself. Whenever we do something, we carry it out first by observing our religious duties and responsibilities, and always keep our religious obligations in mind. At this point, we can talk about a certain way of understanding faith and religion which has mostly influenced the people of our age since Bediüzzaman. This approach aims to bring together sections of society that are separated, scattered, and broken up, to reunite them, to reconcile all Muslims who have been alienated from each other and bring them together. This is the thing which affects people most, but it is also nothing else than a matter related to the Qur'an and Sunna. This is not a system of thought that arises from personal opinions or the reformist thinking of people who actually affirm their own way of believing and making judgments. Therefore, if this is thought to be a movement, the impulse behind it is the ability of people (who acquire the quality and capacity of interpreting correctly the present day and age) to interpret the Qur'an and Sunna according to the requirements of that age. Another impulse of this understanding is a new body of thought that is based upon satisfying and meeting the desires and needs of humankind regarding everything in our age. This is not much different from the Islamic understanding of other people. We do not perceive Islam in a different way than other Muslims. From certain perspectives, however, we may be a little beyond others; for example, by accepting everyone as they are in their social status and respecting them for it. Today, we have the utmost need to bring about new interpretations regarding the not-yet-fully revealed aspects of the Book and the practices of the Prophet according to the changing needs of time and without destroying their authenticity. While explicating the subjects belonging to Islam, oratory, style, rhetoric and address may change with time. The Qur'an is, in the first place, a Divine provision. And this provision can be benefitted from in various ways. The important thing here is to interpret the Qur’an in every respect and reflect deeply upon it while, considering the conditions of the day, we try to discover and disclose its various jewels and precious treasures as they are revealed according to changes in time. Different colours of this Divine Revelation have always been discovered throughout history by new interpretations. For example, ‘Umar Ibn Abd al-‘Azîz[8], al-Ghazâlî, Fakhr ad-Dîn al-Râzî[9], Imam Rabbânî, and Bediüzzaman all read it from a perspective that was different from that of their predecessors.



[1] Born in 1878 in what was the Ottoman province of Bitlis, in eastern Anatolia, he was an important scholar and Muslim reformer and the author of an important commentary of the Koran. His fame won him the nickname of Bediüzzaman (the wonder of the time). He died in Urfa (Edessa), in Anatolia, in 1960. His grave was demolished and the body removed so as to avoid its worship.
[2] Imâm-i Rabbânî Shaykh Ahmad al-Farûqî al-Sirhindî (1564-1624), of Indian origin, was a great mystic and Islamic reformer.
[3] Khâlid al-Baghdâdî, mystic of the Naqshbandiyya confraternity, died in Syria in 1826. He is the author of a number of Sufi treatises.
[4] Abû Hâmid al-Ghazâlî (1058-1111), mystic and theologian, was one of the greatest thinkers and reformers of the history of Islam. See ‘Oasis’ 11 (2010), 66-69.
[5] Abd al-Qâdir al-Jilânî (1077-1166) was one of the greatest Islamic mystics and founder of the Qâdiriyya brotherhood. He is buried in Baghdad.
[6] Muhammad Bahâ’ud-Dîn (1318-1389), the great Islamic mystic, was the founder of the Sufi confraternity Naqshbandiyya. He is buried in Bukhara, in Central Asia.
[7] Famous Turkish jurist born in 1893 and died in 1967.
[8] Lived between the VII and VIII century, eighth caliph of the Umayyad dynasty, famous for its religious piety.
[9] Born in Iran in 1149 and died in Herat in present-day Afghanistan in 1209, theologian, he is the author of a leading commentary of the Koran.


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Sunday, March 23, 2014

Fethullah Gulen's Interview with Today's Zaman [Part 1]

Islamic scholar Gülen calls conditions in Turkey worse than military coup

[Part 1] Islamic scholar Gülen calls conditions in Turkey worse than military coup












Islamic scholar Fethullah Gülen, who has inspired a worldwide network active in education, charity and outreach, has described large-scale slander, pressure and oppression his Hizmet movement currently faces as worse than that seen during anti-democratic military coup regimes witnessed by Turkey. He also calls on his supporters to remain patient and steadfast and to not despair.

“What we are seeing today is 10 times worse than what we saw during the military coups,” he said, adding to that “we face similar treatment [as seen during the military coups] but at the hands of civilians who we think follow the same faith as us.”

Gülen's remarks represent a stark reminder of how he feels today in comparison to past military coups, during which he said he was prosecuted and persecuted. His comparison confirms what Turkish opposition parties are saying; namely, that the government in Turkey has staged a civilian coup and suspended the constitution and the rule of law in the country following the breakout of a corruption scandal on Dec. 17 of last year.

“But despite everything, I don't complain. … All we can do is say ‘This, too, shall pass,' and remain patient,” Gülen added. He also predicted that the current oppression engaged in by the government will not last long. “Aggressors will be turned upside down when they least expect it,” Gülen said.
Having stayed largely silent in the face of relentless attacks amounting to hate speech by beleaguered Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who was incriminated in a massive corruption scandal, Gülen spoke to Today's Zaman and provided his account of how he sees the recent events in Turkey in the first interview with the Turkish media since Dec. 17.

In an extensive interview that  publisished in Today's Zaman as a four-part series starting on Monday, March 17, Gülen explains his views on the corruption investigations, upcoming local elections, whether he will support any political party, slander leveled against him, voice recordings that have been leaked to the Internet, the release of suspects in the Ergenekon trial, the settlement process with the country's Kurds, rumors on a possible lawsuit against members of the Hizmet movement after the elections, Hizmet's alleged involvement in the takeover of the Fenerbahçe sports club, how he sees Turkey exiting from the current crisis, his return to Turkey and other questions many have been wondering about.

In the first part of the series, Gülen makes it clear that no conspiracy, slander and smear attacks can overcome truth, prudence and foresight. “What evidence are they relying on when speaking so confidently? I really don't know,” he said, challenging those who spread lies about the Hizmet movement to bring forth evidence in support of their allegations. Recalling that believers have been denigrated throughout history, Gülen emphasized that “everyone acts in accordance with their character.”

Despite attacks and a campaign of defamation, Gülen said almost all of his friends have acted with fidelity. “There was virtually no shock or breakup from among our companions and friends,” he noted in an apparent response to Erdoğan's failed efforts to drive a wedge between the leadership and the grassroots of the Hizmet movement. Erdoğan repeatedly said there is a difference between the leaders of the Hizmet movement and the members of the organization. “While the organization's members at the grassroots level are displaying sincerity, its leaders have taken a different position,” Erdoğan noted, accusing the leadership of conspiring with what he called “international dark circles.”
Recounting the Feb. 28, 1997 postmodern coup, during which he was victimized and forced to leave the country amid the military's ouster of an elected government, Gülen said he tried his best to prevent the coup from taking place, including appealing to political leaders to call for an early election to get a fresh mandate. “Tension was building and everyone was searching for ways to save the country from this predicament [the impending threat of a military coup] with minimal damage. And like many others, I said early elections might be the cure. I suggested early elections should be held under a new election law.”

Gülen also talked about his alleged role in a conspiracy to change the management of the Fenerbahçe sports club, which boasts an estimated 25 million -- some say over 30 million -- supporters. However, a new voice recording leaked on YouTube early in March revealed that Prime Minister Erdoğan had attempted to get a candidate close to him elected as chairman of the Fenerbahçe sports club, instructing his son Bilal on how to prep his favored candidate with talking points.

“It has been understood that this claim [the Hizmet movement taking over Fenerbahçe] has turned out to be an aspersion,” Gülen said in reference to the voice recording. He added that “the emerging trend of our time is to attribute every inexplicable event to the Hizmet movement and use it as a scapegoat.” Gülen underlined that he rejoices the achievements of Turkish sport teams, be it Fenerbahçe, Galatasaray, Trabzon, Beşiktaş or any other team.

Gülen described remarks by Erdoğan's top advisor, Yalçın Akdoğan, as a trick. Akdoğan had suggested conspirators, a veiled reference to Hizmet, had used the Ergenekon and Sledgehammer coup plot trials, in which many military officials, including top brass, were convicted, to target the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK). They tried to blame Hizmet for what they had done, he said. Recalling that the government rushed a bill from Parliament to save one man, National Intelligence Organization (MİT) Undersecretary Hakan Fidan, from ongoing legal troubles in February 2012, Gülen said Erdoğan's government could have done the same for the others had it wanted.


You have in recent times been the target of all sorts of preposterous lies and slander. Very strong words have been used. But despite these accusations, you have remained silent, refraining from giving a response.
I have of course been very saddened. What evidence are they relying on when speaking so confidently? I really don't know. I don't know of any historical incident in which an unbeliever [hostile to Islam] had ever uttered a similar word or accusation against those who believe [i.e., Muslims]. I did not expect it from those who uttered them. I do not want to say that they are lying. Rather, I prefer to say that they are misleading the people with incorrect statements. For the time being, I find consolation in the fact that, throughout history, but particularly during times of discord (fitna), we can see that people were defamed and the believers denigrated, and people who did not know the truth about the development were implicated in that sin. So who are we, then? People even hurled accusations at Aisha, the Mother of the Believers, in the Age of Happiness (Asr al-Saadah) [i.e., when the Prophet Muhammad was alive]. Even worse, unbelievers cast aspersions on God. The Quran frequently refers to these aspersions. "God has taken unto Himself a son," they say. Or "The angels are the daughters of God," they say. These inappropriate and improper descriptions about God always bother me. God, the prophets and the saints were all subjected to this improper treatment. And today, some believers do the same to an ordinary, worthless person who is me. This is not a big thing, I conclude, and I find consolation in this fact.

Everyone acts in accordance with their character. People capable of oppression engage in oppression. But because you have no teeth, you cannot bite anyone. And it's better that way. Let them indulge in oppression. Let them go on with oppression. And let us be guided with poise and vigilance and ask for God's mercy and forgiveness for those who have the capacity to turn back from their errors, and let us ask God to save them. Being on the receiving end of slander, aspersions and conspiracies has and always will be the destiny of those traveling on this path. However, prudence and foresight undo such adversity. No conspiracy or slander can resist prudence. Those who let themselves be driven by these conspiracies and illusions should try to revise their path in the light of the Quran and the Sunnah [i.e., the example of the Prophet].

Do you think the following lines from a poem you frequently quote sufficiently describe our time: “Friends are unfaithful, fate merciless, time restless / There is much trouble, and no cure; the enemy is strong, and fortune weak”? (Fuzuli)
Almost all of our friends have acted with fidelity. Despite so much defamation, there was virtually no shock or breakup from among our companions and friends. Yet, it is our wish that everyone should act by their true worth. Sometimes, this expectation does not fully hold true. I do not know if we have the right to expect certain, experienced longtime friends of ours to speak out the truth. However, I would at least like to say that I would expect certain people to be more than just friends when times are good.

There was a person who used to say he was ready to die for me. And after we were released from prison after March 12 [1971], we were working on the construction of the Bozyaka Dormitory. I said let's complete the construction work. And he said, “Please don't involve me in this business.” It is important that people not be shaken in hard times. Capacity matters. In the face of our friends' inability to act properly, we should not resent. In the Hereafter, everything -- including those shameful acts -- will be obvious to everyone. We bear with it for the sake of the Hereafter. We work for eternity [i.e., heaven]. If you seek to attain eternal bliss, you don't look to this lowly world.
We forgive whatever wrong has been done to us. Let everyone hear this. But if any wrongdoing concerns religious or sacred values, the One [i.e., God] to whom those values belong will hold the perpetrators accountable for their actions. Aggressors will be turned upside down when they least expect it. Indeed, we do not even want that to happen because the heart of a human being should be like a rose [i.e., soft and elegant]. Our words should also be like roses so that wherever they are heard they leave behind a nice fragrance.

You are one of the main victims of the Feb. 28, 1997 postmodern coup. A lawsuit was brought against you as a result of an unprecedented media lynch campaign and this lawsuit dragged on for eight years. A group of people who see hostility against you as their raison d'être now claim that you supported the Feb. 28 coup, and by doing so they try to pave the way to further victimization. Do you feel like you are re-living the same events?
We have gone through these kinds of things many times. I was sentenced to six-and-a-half months in prison on the charge of “penetrating into the state apparatus” at the time of the March 12, 1971 military memorandum. At that time, Article 163 [of the Turkish Penal Code (TCK)] stood as a guillotine for Muslims until it was abolished by [former Prime Minister Turgut] Özal. In the wake of the Sept. 12, 1980 military coup, the authorities tracked me for six years as if I were a criminal. Raids were carried out. Our friends were harassed. In a sense, it became a sort of lifestyle for us to live under constant surveillance in a coup atmosphere. What we are seeing today is 10 times worse than what we saw during the military coups.

But despite everything, I don't complain. This time, we face similar treatment but at the hands of civilians who we think follow the same faith as us. I should acknowledge that this inflicts extra pain on us. All we can do is say "This, too, shall pass," and remain patient.

Mention is made about your criticisms concerning Necmettin Erbakan, who served as prime minister at the time of the Feb. 28 coup. You are claimed to have supported that coup.
Everyone knew and saw that the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) grew uneasy when the Welfare Party (RP) came in first in the elections. Clouds were gathering, but had not yet turned into a storm. I remember [journalists] the late Yavuz Gökmen, Fehmi Koru and Fatih Çekirge from Ankara. I shared my thoughts and feelings with them. I received unfair and unfitting reactions. Yet there were also others who had realized the imminent danger.

When, riding on the wave of social reactions amassing in the wake of the Susurluk scandal, certain groups implemented the coup, it was too late. My name was added to the report prepared by the National Intelligence Organization (MİT) about the Susurluk scandal [the 1996 Susurluk affair exposed links between the Turkish state, the criminal underworld and Turkish security forces] at the last moment. Although I later learned who did this, I never held any suspicions about believers [i.e., pious Muslims]. Then came the Feb. 28 coup. The second article of the infamous statement demanded that our schools be nationalized in accordance with the Law on the Unification of Education. Tension was building and everyone was searching for ways to save the country from this predicament with minimal damage. And like many others, I said early elections might be the cure. I suggested early elections should be held under a new election law. This was not an idea voiced only by me, but also by many others, most notably Korkut Özal. There were even some pro-government groups and media outlets that thought the same and ran headlines to that effect. A brief look through the archives will reveal who said and wrote what.

There is another aspect. I explained to the then-Labor Minister Necati Çelik the coup atmosphere that was forming in the country at the time. Several witnessed this conversation. Alaattin Kaya [the former owner of the Zaman daily] and Melih Nural [a member of the Board of Trustees of Turgut Özal University] were with us during that meeting. "They are planning to get rid of the government," said. I worked hard to avert any anti-democratic development. Minister Çelik enthusiastically listened to my worries, and then left. He conveyed my concerns to Erbakan. However, Erbakan did not opt to take measures to prevent adverse developments.

Likewise, I tried to explain the impending threat to [former Prime Minister] Tansu Çiller, briefing her about the negative developments. "Let us act with moderation," Çiller responded. And this saddened me. I did not venture into details. Having realized that I could not explain the danger to anyone, I was urged to say something to avert an incident that would lead to a possible coup, examples of which we already witnessed in this region.

I am in no position to tell anyone, "You have failed." Everyone knows that I show due respect to the people entitled to represent the nation. At that time, making mention of Abu Bakr [the first caliph] and ‘Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz [an Umayyad caliph known for his righteousness], I asserted that it would not be a regression for the government to resign from office. If a mass resignation of deputies from Parliament -- which would trigger a process leading to early elections -- would avert more serious disasters, it should be employed -- which also applies to the coups of May 27, 1960 and Sept. 12, 1980. Indeed, in response to the e-memorandum of April 27, 2007, the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) decided to hold early elections and was thereby able to avert disaster. The tactics employed with this memorandum were similar to those wielded by anti-democratic forces during the Feb. 28 process, and the early elections card really worked. Thus, my message was: "Amend the election law and hold early elections."

I should note that a closer look at the Susurluk report and the memorandum of Feb. 28 reveals that the Hizmet movement was one of the main targets of the junta. What happened later was the implementation of that intention. Any claim to the contrary would be unfair and misguided.
In part two of this series, to be published tomorrow, Gülen says he could not advise people to turn a blind eye to allegations of corruption.


Scapegoating Hizmet became a pattern

In our previous meetings, you had stated, referring to the claim that the Hizmet movement is trying to take Fenerbahçe under its control, that it is absurd to make such a claim. What would you like to say about this claim in light of the latest information that has emerged?
Yes. Fenerbahçe is an outstanding sports club. As far as I see, its management, audience and fans tend to act in unison. This solidarity is the envy of many. And who should be disturbed by this? When Galatasaray saw success in the European championships, I rejoiced over its achievements. It is my hope that Beşiktaş, Trabzonspor and the country's other teams are very successful. They should make their mark in the world. From this perspective, with which apolitical goals can you explain efforts to bring Fenerbahçe or any other club under control? The emerging trend of our time is to attribute every inexplicable event to the Hizmet movement and use it as a scapegoat. It has been understood that this claim [the Hizmet movement taking over Fenerbahçe] has turned out to be an aspersion.

Gov't adopts double standards in court cases

A large number of suspects were released in legal cases and investigations that were closely followed by the people, Ergenekon being the prime example. How do you assess this matter?
We will side with what the laws dictate and specify. The remark that a plot was staged against the army was a trick. They attempted to blame the movement for what they actually did. They convened Parliament to make a law for a single person. They could have acted with the same sensitivity with respect to these people as well. A release is one thing; a trial is another. They are still being tried. The legal decision should be respected. We have always been in favor of the law and universal values. We will remain the same. The law should be respected even in critical times when you are subjected to grave assaults.



Read the full interview here
 

Saturday, April 20, 2013

Fethullah Gülen: How to get an interview

Justin Vela writes:
 
Gülen, in particular, is fascinating to me. And, yes, the fascination comes from more than being chastised by one of the Gülen Movement’s newspaper as an “emotional” and “biased” reporter. A weeks ago, I pressed a senior member of the movement on how I could interview Gülen. The man laughed. If you want to interview Gülen you should read everything that he has said and everything that has already been written about him, the man said. Then submit a list of original questions that have not already been answered.
It sounds so simple. And I am working on it. However, Gülen has said a lot and there’s been a lot written about him. So I could use some help. If you have an original question you’d like me to ask Gülen in the near future do let me know. Of course, it will be nice to have his thoughts on being chosen one of TIME’s 100 most influential people for 2013. But there’s a lot more to ask a man whose teachings have created an international movement.

SOURCE: http://justinvela.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/how-to-interview-fethullah-gulen/